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Post by Klarkus on Sept 1, 2003 6:40:10 GMT -5
Ive just been playing KOF's and was wondering why you favour them over Street Fighter games? The only games i really like of SNK are Metal Slugs. All the fighting games dont really offer as much excitement as Capcom games in my opinion so I was just wondering why you find them so good and worth that much money (mvs) when you can just buy really fun exciting 2d fighters like marvel vs capcom 2 - Mad insane game that takes alot of skill and its exciting.
Not dissin SNK games just wondering why you favour them.
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Post by Kazuya_UK on Sept 1, 2003 7:46:08 GMT -5
SNK games tend to need more skill to play them in my opinion - don't get me wrong, I like MvsC2, but it's just a button masher where you can win without much skill at all. I know it takes some skill to do certain combos and I've seen some really impressive stuff, but at the end of the day a skillful player on that game can lose easily to someone that just buttons mashes and uses cheap ways to win. Believe me, I've seen it happen many times in competitive play - that's why they don't often use that game in tournaments and go for stuff like SF3 or even SSF2 Turbo instead.
I'm into Neo stuff cos that's what I used to play when I was a kid. I was always REALLY into Street Fighter 2, but lets face it that was the *only* fighting game Capcom had for about 5 years (apart from maybe Darkstalkers, but that game got ignored by people here)... I mean, they milked SF2 from 1991 right up until 96 or so when they finally released a totally new one (Alpha/Zero). But in that time SNK released Samurai Shodown 1+2, Fatal Fury 1/2/Special, Art of Fighting, A couple of King of Fighters games and loads more. SNK's character design has usually been a lot more interesting too, with a few exceptions.
Although SF2 stood the test of time very well and is still fun even today, Capcom really did have a lack of imagination around the early to mid-nineties and people started to get bored, which is why many warmed to SNK as they did a lot of stuff that hadn't been done before. Oh, and for the record, as far as I know SNK were the first to do a tag team fighter - Kizuna Encounter was released a few months before X-Men Vs Street Fighter.
Anyway, I'm not gonna diss Capcom either as I've always enjoyed their games, but SNK has always been *the* company for me when it comes to 2D fighters. I just think they have done far more to enhance 2D fighters than Capcom ever did. True, in the beginning they maybe weren't all that original, but things really kicked off around about the time Samurai Shodown 1+2 were released (I personally think that those games were the first to show SNK's true talent) and it just snowballed from there.
Overall though, SNK would have been a totally different company were it not for their competition with Capcom, and vice-versa. They have borrowed a lot of each others ideas (and now staff considering Capcom decided to hire a few of the old SNK staff like artists etc), so without both of them I think fighting games these days would have been much different.
Kaz
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Post by Throwen on Sept 1, 2003 8:00:12 GMT -5
Ok ok, this Question longs for a banning!!Hehe, just Kidding!!  Okay, KoF: can´t you feel the Magic when playing through the Orochi Story??  KoF is one of the 2D Fighting Games in which you need to be skilled, fast and a good Timing! Not just: "Damn, I finish you*crashing the Gamepad, Keyboard, etc.*"-does that remind you of something??  The Graphics are really cool, the In-Game Art, the Story, the Chars..(e.g. KoF99, 98,...)  The Street Fighter Games are just so cheap, except Street Fighter 3: 3rd Strike, which was really cool! The others are just "Button-Smashers", e.g.:Marvel vs Capcom1, XMen vs Street Fighter,...... You just need Luck for winning in this Game. So if you ain´t got Skill, Timing, and the feeling for your Enemy, you can´t be good in KoF! [glow=red,2,300]What you´ve just read was the personal Opinion of Throwen! (copyrighted) [/glow] |
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Post by RoninBuddha on Sept 1, 2003 8:32:52 GMT -5
When it comes to fighters... i like the idea that skill is required to play games like KOF and SamSho. Capcom's games were just too... easy,(c'mon!, i finished SFZ3 with 1 credit, the first time it was released!), ansd the story... need i start?  SNK's storly lines were far cooler and more "anime/manga", the orochi saga is a good example.. look at capcom's story.. WHAT da hell is RYU's deal with "FIGHTING" ?! and CAPCOM doesnt appriciate it's Japanese History and all thier fighters were solely a bunch of ppl fighting , unlike SNK's SamSho and LB, the sword clashing was way better than some ROBOTs beating up around the a city (tech romancer) When it comes to GFX ... okay, capcom ownz snk in this department.. i must admit it (SNK! PLZ CHANGE HARDWARE!), but the way SNK is pushing the NEO to it's limits is very impressive (look at garou, on par with SF3  ), but have you played Cool Cool Toon yet? very cool gfx! ;D, the music... SNK ownz CAPCOM! nothing is much more memorable than ESAKA'96 or Arashi no SAXOPHONE 2... now these were better than some lame electroninc muzic done by capcom (for SFZ123), it sounds like crap, SNK just  in this dept. about the Marketing/Merchendise/OTHER Miscellenia... NEOPRINT!... it was a hit back then... every school girl in japan succumbed to its kawaii factor... ,Capcom's non-game arcade stuff was crap.. marketing for SNK is very hard these days... about the artwork.. (KOF & SF) the semi realistic art of SNK back then was way cooler than crappy looking SF2 chars, nuff said. but in the end.. CAPCOM still ownz SNK, it's sad to say, but we must face it that the wide modern VG market favors CAPCOM... SNK had it's glory days... nowadys, only a few SNK follwers are left, (it's like a cult). so, people like us are what is keeping SNK alive (now SNK PLaymore), PS - Capcom has quit the arcade biz... got scared of SNK??? nah.. , arcades are dying.. (damn XBOX!, X-Live must be hacked/infected so all X-live players's Xboxes will get fried and all XBOXes in da world will be destroyed!.....HAHAH!  ) sorry for my rudeness ;D |
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Post by Raiken on Sept 1, 2003 11:09:56 GMT -5
LOL. Well I get a sense of nostalgia from playing SNK since I first saw them when I was a kid. I have to agree I find them more challenging then most of the capcom fighters I've played. There not as pleasing to the eye but as it's been said before the neo continues to surprise me(Garou comes to mind). Plus SNK games are the ones I always own my friends at in the arcade(went totally undefeated with Hanzo in SS2 yesterday ;D). BTW Throwen I used to watch that mortal kombat show when it aired here in the states.
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Post by Goukistar on Sept 1, 2003 13:31:09 GMT -5
Right, first things first: the notion that one requires more skill to play an SNK fighter than a Capcom one is a pile of crap. The idea that SF is unbalanced/cheap compared to KoF etc. is garbage. I have loved sprite based 2-D fighters for over a decade now, and both SNK and Capcom have produced plenty. Which companies games I prefer changes all the time: six months ago I wasn't playing any fighter that didn't have KoF in the title, whereas I have played nothing but Capcom vs. games for a few months now (and don't get me started on just how risible the whole no skill/button masher drivel is - they require as much as any fighter on the Neo Geo, they just have a very shallow initial learning curve. I'm not trying to tell anyone what games they should like, just to hate for the right reasons).
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Post by Throwen on Sept 1, 2003 15:56:23 GMT -5
BTW Throwen I used to watch that mortal kombat show when it aired here in the states. Hehe, I like it very much though! I find it´s better than all of those Movies!! Better Actors and sth.! Need to get the DVD´s!! |
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FCFighter
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Post by FCFighter on Sept 1, 2003 16:21:23 GMT -5
Capcom owns SNK IMO
i jus got into neo geo al little while ago
i been play streetfight all my life
but joe higashi is my favorite character outta all of the games capcom or snk
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Post by Klarkus on Sept 2, 2003 6:09:19 GMT -5
You obviously dont play MvC very much do you - www.pimp-productions.com/videos/0pimptownvolume1.avi download that and try and either do some of the stuff on there or even what you would do to counter it. It takes skill and timming to win in MvC2 (assists and counters). As for KOF i think the game plays slow and theres not really much to do. Ok the story is good but at the end of the day I dont play 2d fighters to complete them or for there story For your post i suggest downloading this - www.namonaki.com/games/namonaki-bison_special.zip You can even ask kaz about the A-Groove Customs I do even he knows it takes more skill to pull those off |
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Post by Kazuya_UK on Sept 2, 2003 8:09:53 GMT -5
I haven't said that Capcom fighters are unskillful, but Marvel Vs Capcom 2 definitely is. Sure, it takes a LOT of skill to be able to oull off some of the combos you mention, but it means nothing when a total novice can beat an expert by button mashing. I'm no expert, but I have friends who are really good at the game that I've seen beaten by someone who used the cheapest tactics to win... example: tick damage from supers, stuff like that. I still enjoy playing MvsC2, but it is far less skillful than many SNK games, in fact it is way less skillful than a lot of other Capcom fighters I've played.
Klark: I don't mean this in a big-headed or offensive way, but just out of interest - you learnt to do all those really good looking combos in Cvs2, and I know they take a lot of skill to do (and I sure as hell can't do them)... but how many times did you beat me by using them? I'm not that great at the game and I barely ever play it, but all those combos you learnt to do didn't really do much against my simple tactics... if someone that doesn't play the game much can beat someone who plays almost nothing *but* that game, then something is wrong somewhere.
I still say that SNK games take MUCH more skill to win. Best example I can think of is that many of my friends enjoy 2D fighters and are pretty good at stuff like Street Fighter... but they can barely get past a few stages of KoF on level 4 difficulty, nor can they get anywhere at all on a game like Samurai Shodown. Capcom games tend to be more user friendly, while SNK games have a much steeper learning curve so it takes a LOT of perseverence and practice to get good at them. I'm not shitting on Capcom's games as I genuinely love them, but the gameplay in their games does follow a very different approach to SNK's games.
Other than the nice graphics, why do you think that MotW is the most popular game among newcomers to the Neo Geo? It's probably because SNK dumbed that game down a lot compared to the other Fatal Fury's and made it much more accessible or "Capcom-like" than many other games. I love the game to pieces, but it is definitely easier to complete than the other games in the series. Then there's the super moves - pretty much all characters super moves are done with the exact same super motion... which is pretty much how a lot of Capcom fighters are. Lot's of people don't seem to able to get their heads around stuff like "QCF, HCB", so they just changed everything to "QCF, QCF".
Kaz
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Post by umgogo on Sept 2, 2003 9:41:17 GMT -5
"Other than the nice graphics, why do you think that MotW is the most popular game among newcomers to the Neo Geo? It's probably because SNK dumbed that game down a lot compared to the other Fatal Fury's and made it much more accessible or "Capcom-like" than many other games." Ugh... why is it that everyone insists on labelling MotW as "dumbed down"? Time for me to defend my favourite game...  "Capcom-like"? Certainly (but - IMO -better!). Simpler than the newest KOF titles, perhaps. Easier to master than Third Strike, probably. Less complex than the earlier Fatal Fury games? No way. The Real Bout series has only one feature that MotW does not - two-line fighting (which is mostly annoying if you ask me, though less so than in the earlier games in the series). Oh, and there are some command attacks, but they are little more than extra normals - three buttons does limit the arsenal a bit. As for the "original" FF franchise, those titles are a tad too old to compare to a 1999 game. Real Bout 2 seems to be a step back towards the old style, but ends up like a mishmash, so to speak... a pity the world has yet not seen a RB3. Garou has Just Defense (complete with Guard Cancels/Break Shots), T.O.P. Mode (with T.O.P. Attacks), Braking, Feinting, High/Low Dodge Attacks, more moves/S./P.Powers, link chains rather than "canned combos" and a small but varied cast. Many combos take quite some imagination to find and skill to pull off, and are actually useful in player vs. player situations (unlike many showboat combos in other games, such as CvS2). All in all, it can hold its own against just about any recent 2D game. "I love the game to pieces, but it is definitely easier to complete than the other games in the series." No offense, but... "complete" as in beat the CPU at the highest difficulty level? Surely that says nothing about the inherent complexity of the game! Most people can go through Tekken 3 on Hard without much sweat, but will have problems beating Fatal Fury 2 even on the Level 1 setting. Does that mean that FF2 is "deeper"? Of course not. "Then there's the super moves - pretty much all characters super moves are done with the exact same super motion... which is pretty much how a lot of Capcom fighters are. Lot's of people don't seem to able to get their heads around stuff like "QCF, HCB", so they just changed everything to "QCF, QCF"." While I definitely appreciate this simplification and understand how it makes the game more "player-friendly", it does not make the engine any less sophisticated. Again, the Fatal Fury 2/Special DM motions are insane, but those games have very little on say, KOF '98 or MotW when it comes to depth. And you must not forget Jenet's An Oi Mademoiselle (Just Defend, A, B, C in rapid succession). That move requires teh $killz!!!1111 ;D Lastly, it does not seem like anyone here is on the kind of skill level required to fairly judge how good one has to be to master any contemporary fighting game. I most certainly am not, but I do know that the REALLY good SF/VS players will NOT lose to intermediates (let alone button mashers), any more than an average player would be beaten by a scrub. The ability to pull off pretty combos is obviously not much of a help if one never gets to implement them, nor is a world of theoretical knowledge (like mine) unless accompanied with practical... know-how, I suppose. Above-average players can boast both, usually in equal measure. It is possible that the experts claim that one game has a higher "learning roof" than another, and the initial learning curves definitely differ (compare Rage of the Dragons and the first Guilty Gear to Virtua Fighter 4...), but talent and experience always pay off. Simply put, if you as a rather casual player can take a "1334 CvS2 d00d", he is not as "1334" as he thinks. |
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Post by Goemon on Sept 2, 2003 10:04:33 GMT -5
I been playin Capcom and SNK fighters since i was little and i started playing SF 2 and it was so amazing to me, and i always played the new titles up till SF 2 Super then i noticed the KOF and Samurai showdown 2 games at my local arcade and i think from that point on i was hooked to SNK games, soon after SF Alpha was released and that was pretty good but once Capcom started into the whole X-Men, Street fighter vs. X-men, Marvel vs. Capcom business it really turned me off, just huge cartoony characters like Hulk using moves like making rocks come up from the ground (even on a metal floor  ) just was pretty disturbing to me but games like KOF Samsho and Garou represented more traditional and fun fighting to me. I don't hate on capcom but it definately pisses me off when people call SNK games boring cause they don't have as much rediculous flashy effects and easier to obtain crazy moves like the whole Marvel vs. craze |
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Post by BoriquaSNK on Sept 2, 2003 13:38:29 GMT -5
Aside from Ikagura, MvC 2 is my favorite shooter All joking aside, Capcom games are Capcom games and SNK games are SNK games. What's great about these two styles is that they are always ripping off from each other which leads to better and better games. SO when I think about it, while my preference is SNK (Where else does it take you ten minutes to pull off a desperation move) Capcom stuff is fun. |
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Post by Earlee on Sept 3, 2003 1:08:23 GMT -5
I love how in there fighting games you need skills, I also love the fact that they keep there game feeling and looking old school  |
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Post by Throwen on Sept 3, 2003 13:43:21 GMT -5
Aside from Ikagura, MvC 2 is my favorite shooter LOL!! Hehe, that´s one good Point, bud! Well, okay, Capcom, we saw that they improved their 2D-Fighting-Development. Take SF: 3rdStrike, Capcom vs SNK 2! Great Games!! But they destroyed that again with MvC2! Okay, but if Capcom stayed on the Line of CvS2, it would definetly be great if they improved it Year after Year. Anyways, we´ll see, at the Moment SNK is No.1, and I don´t think it´ll ever be different. But, as I said, we´ll see. And what are People, who say: "Capcom owns Snk", searching in this Forum?? ;D |
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